Studer Community Institute

Talking with Tim

October 9, 2014
/ Reggie Dogan
/ community-dashboard

In a simple but compelling narrative, Tim O’Brien illuminates the complexity of a war that is fought not only on the battlefield but also in the mind, body and soul of combat warriors. O’Brien’s “The Things They Carried” weaves real and imagined stories of soldiers in Vietnam who carry necessities of war —guns, gear and grunts — along with the emotional baggage of fear, uncertainty and death. Describing the contradictions of war, O’Brien wrote: “War is hell, but that’s not half of it, because war is also mystery and terror and adventure and courage and discovery and holiness and pity and despair and longing and love. War is nasty; war is fun. War is thrilling; war is drudgery. War makes you a man; war makes you dead.” As part of The Big Read, a National Endowment for the Arts program, O’Brien visits Pensacola this week for a series of lectures and discussions about his literary work that is celebrated as one of the most important books about the experience of the Vietnam War. Reggie Dogan spoke with O’Brien in a telephone interview from his home in Austin, Texas. The Minnesota native ruminated on a variety of topics, ranging from the joy of fatherhood to the pain and suffering of living and dying on a battlefield. Reggie Dogan: Why does your book appeal to people who have never been in combat as well as those who have? Tim O’Brien: For many people war is abstract because most people haven’t been in it. If you’re in one, it’s so much different. It’s not abstract at all. It’s personal when somebody is shooting at you or you’re shooting at someone. Dogan: What do you hope people who read “The Things They Carried” will take away from the book? O’Brien: Books are personal things, and you get out of a book what you bring to it. If you’re not a veteran then other things will appeal to you in the story. I concentrate on trying to tell a story that appeals to different people at different times. Dogan: In “The Things They Carried,” there’s a section where the narrator gets the draft notice and relates his personal struggle with the idea of leaving home and going to fight a controversial war on foreign soil. Is that scene more truth than fiction? O’Brien: I do remember those feelings when I got my letter. You get out of high school and get a draft notice, you feel very angry. You ask, “Why don’t they send somebody who loves war?” Send Lyndon Baines Johnson. Send the war hawks. I felt sadness because I love my country. My dad was a sailor and my mom served in the Navy. I come from a small town and you want to do what your country tells you to do. It seemed to me that a young draftee shouldn’t have to go killing people. A war divides a country. My dad was against it but my mother was for it. The media had it views and the politicians had theirs. I felt a deep sense of sadness. Dogan: Did your parents live long enough to witness your success as a writer, and if so, what was their impression? O’Brien: They were quite proud of me. There was not a lot of back-patting, but they really liked the book and were happy that I had written it. I remember them saying, “Everybody is going to think it’s you because you used your name.” Dogan: I see that you have a relatively new father rather late in life. O’Brien: Timmy is 11 and Tad is 9. I have an incredible love for my children. I’m 68, and I think if I were younger I wouldn’t appreciate them as much as I do. To watch them develop into real people is one of the great things I carry. Being a parent is a lot like being in Vietnam. There’s a sense of mortality. Being an older father, playing basketball will be a big problem in 20 years when I’m 88. Dogan: You mentioned your children as one of the things you carry. What are some important things that you still carry today from the war? O’Brien: I always carry the memories of the ghosts of Vietnam, the people of Vietnam, my fellow soldiers. Sometimes I’m filled with a lot of guilt and also a lot of pride that I survived it. Some of my friends stepped to the right or left and they’re dead. I think of parents who lost children, and the children who lost their fathers or never knew their fathers. It brings me sadness to think about what the human race does to each other. And we keep doing the same things over and over again. Dogan: If politicians or bureaucrats read your book, what would hope they carry from it? O’Brien: I don’t think it changes their politics, but I think there sometimes is a subtle change. Maybe they would use a little less rhetorical language and platitudes, less absolutisms about what’s right or wrong. Wars come down to I’m so right and you’re so wrong, that’s why I’m going to kill you. How can people be so sure about things that they will kill people and nobody seems to care? Absolutism can lead to read problems and dead children. That’s always bothered me since I was a little kid. That’s part of what the book is about, to make readers a little less sure about everything and less certain. Dogan: What kind of books did you read growing up? O’Brien: I read The Hardy Boys, a lot of comic books, books that a lot of kids read like The Lone Ranger, Alice in Wonderland, the Grimm Brothers’ fairy tales. In college, I guess I read most of the classics and a lot of well-known books that most college students probably read. There was no one or two books or authors who had a major influence on me. I enjoyed reading and loved going the library to spend hours reading. Dogan: Besides reading and writing, what do you do for fun or hobbies? O’Brien: I play golf and some basketball with the kids to keep me young and in shape. I’m also an amateur magician. I enjoy the sleigh of hand. I’m working on a book right now about being an older father. It’s a pretty funny book. Dogan: Are you surprised that your book is still being read and appreciated by the younger generation today? O’Brien: I wrote the book for adults, but 95 percent of letters I receive are from young people in college or high school. They say they can learn about what their father or brother or husband or boyfriend went through. Dogan: How do feel about being a part of The Big Read? O’Brien: The Big Read is amazing. To get a whole community to discuss, debate and argue about a book is really good. Video games and mass media are so dominating,. It’s refreshing that a book can get people to talking.

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